Fortællinger Fra Mjølnerparken

Dansk:

Hovedfokuset her til anden del af fotoudstillingen handler jo om Parallelsamfundspakken, og  Mjølnerparkens fremtid. Så det første spørgsmål, jeg vil stille dig, det er, hvordan Parallelsamfundspakken har påvirket dig?  

Altså Parallelsamfundsparken – eller “ghetto-loven”, som jeg også kalder den, fordi jeg synes, at ordet “ghetto” er kendetegnende for den tankegang, som politikerne har haft med at udstille nogle områder, som noget andet end os andre. Men selvfølgelig omhandler det et parallelsamfund, det at man er “parallel” med nogen. Jeg har heller ikke rigtig forstået, hvad det er. Så er man ligesom parallel i Vedbæk eller hele Europa altså, hvor man ligner hinanden og har nogenlunde samme indkomster, så… Ja. 

Men det har påvirket mig på den måde, at jeg har mistet tilliden til mange politikere. Jeg har mistet tilliden til, at magthavere – og det er især politiske magthavere, – går og undersøger tingene til bunds og er grundige, i stedet bruger de nogle områder til at promovere sig selv. Altså man er handlekraftig, når man laver en ghetto- eller parallellov, for så gør man noget ved et problem, ved et område, hvor der er nogle problemer. Og der har været sociale problemer i mange boligområder. Det er der stadig, men de har ikke brugt den viden, der er om, hvordan man faktisk kan forandre et område med socialpolitiske indsatser. Det koster noget mere på kort sigt, men på længere sigt er det meget mere givende, at man går ind og laver mange forskellige socialpædagogiske tiltag af den ene og den anden art. 

Det, at man som magthaver bruger sådan noget til at promovere sig selv, til at vise handlekraft uden at sætte sig ordentligt ind i tingene – Det har gjort, at jeg simpelthen ikke har tillid til ret mange politikere efterhånden. Jeg synes, det er overfladisk, og det er store ord, og så gør man fortræd, uden at man vil rydde op efter sig. 

Fordi ghettoloven har gjort, at jeg selv har mistet et fællesskab, både et lille fællesskab og et stort fællesskab. Fordi jeg følte mig også som medlem af et stort fællesskab i Mjølnerparken, fordi der kendte jeg så mange mennesker. Bare sagde goddag til og vinkede til og måske lidt small talk, men ikke fordi det var noget særligt. Men alle vidste, hvor de gamle boede henne, for eksempel. Det er jo en stor tryghed, når man er gammel og ikke ved, om der kan ske én et eller andet. Hvis der skete én noget: ville man altid blive fulgt hjem til det rigtige sted. Og det har været en stor tryghed for mig, som jeg synes, de har stjålet; Som ghettoloven, parallelsamfundsloven, har stjålet fra mig. Den måde, den er blevet iværksat. 

Og hvor mange år var det, du fik lov at bo i Mjølnerparken?  

Jeg tror, det var 11 år. Og det var jo betydningsfulde år. Det var betydningsfuldt også at være en del af et fællesskab i et større område, hvor man deltager i de store møder, generalforsamling eller beboermøder. Men også julearrangementer for børn og andre arrangementer. At kunne være praktisk og deltage på sin måde, i den slags. Det er der mange steder, hvor der ikke er rammer for. Det er der ikke, hvor jeg bor her, hvor jeg bor godt – Men der er intet fællesskab nu her, hvor jeg bor, og der er ikke rammer for det. 

Så hvad har du selv oplevet, som det sværeste i processen personligt?  

Ja, [Griner] det var at forstå, at det var alvor. Altså i lang tid havde jeg sådan, “Det kan man da ikke mene. Det kan ikke være rigtigt. Det gør man da ikke ved nogen. Man smider da ikke folk ud af deres lejligheder. Det kan ikke passe.” Men den dag jeg fik opsigelsen, brød jeg helt sammen. Og der var det helt tydeligt. Jeg vidste jo godt, at det ville ske. Men det var meget, meget slemt at få opsigelsen. 

Det var først der, det blev virkeligt?

Der blev det så håndgribeligt. Ja. 

Og hvad i den proces, der så var, fra at nu vidste du så, at nu skulle du flytte? Hvordan har det været  i overgangen fra, at du boede der og så skulle finde en ny bolig?  

Ja, det var sådan, hvad skal man sige, jeg kaldte det en ‘sprød periode’, hvor jeg vidste det, og så ikke helt sådan vidste… Hvordan kunne vi protestere, og hvad kunne vi gøre? Vi lavede nogle arrangementer, og lavede både demonstrationer og nogle andre former for protester. Så noget af energien blev brugt til at manifestere, at det her, det var helt forkert. Men samtidig, så var det også noget med at prøve at tænke på, hvor skal jeg hen, og hvad skal jeg? Og vi fik jo forskellige mærkelige beskeder og breve om lister, om lejligheder, vi skulle søge, og vi hørte historier om, at så var der alligevel ikke noget, der var ledigt, og så var der det ene og det andet, og nogen var for store, og nogle var for dyre, og alt muligt. Og det var sådan de underlige beskeder, vi fik fra dem, der skulle sørge for at vi kom et andet sted hen. Dem, der ville have os ud. Så det var sådan en meget urolig periode på det personlige plan. Altså jeg måtte jo bare gøre op med mig selv, at jeg magtede ikke at bo midlertidigt rundt omkring og komme tilbage til Mjølnerparken. Også fordi der var mange, der havde boet der meget længere end jeg, som havde større ret til det. Så var det til sidst at gå over og spørge efter en bestemt lejlighed, og få anvist noget. En mulighed. 

Men der var også en periode, hvor I håbede på, eller havde forhåbninger om, at I kunne blive sammen, ikke?  

Jo jo, og det havde vi gjort hele tiden. Kommunen accepterede jo… eller, ja. Der er et eller andet sted, hvor vi jo blev lovet, at vi kunne bo på Hothers Plads, og at det var en forudsætning, at vi skulle have et andet sted at bo sammen. Det er der en eller anden aftale om med kommunen, som BoVita ikke har overholdt. Og så, senere, kom der noget med en anden boligforening, der vil bygge noget på Lygten. Der håbede vi, at det måske kunne være færdigt, men det er først lige, at folk er begyndt at flytte ind nu. Og det vil sige, altså, et par år efter, at vi har skulle være ude. Så det har været, meget rodet omkring os. Kommunalpolitikere har også ligesom, “åh, det er jo synd, for jer gamle, og, jamen, I skal da nok blive i et godt ældrebofællesskab. Og dit og dat.” De har haft så mange søde ord om os, men der har ikke været noget som helst realitet i det. Så, ja. 

Og hvad med de forskellige demonstrationer, du har fortalt om, hvordan kom det i værk, og hvad oplevede du, det gjorde midt i alt det her?  

Altså, vi har jo haft demonstrationer under hele perioden. Lige fra loven kom. Der har vi haft flere demonstrationer. Der har været de store , fra hele landet, som foregik den 1. december hvert år foran Christiansborg. Men så har der jo også været lokale demonstrationer i Mjølnerparken, som vi organiserede, og hvor folk deltog meget ivrigt. Det var både inden alting var afgjort, eller inden vi vidste, hvor pokker vi havnede henne. Ja, og det har jo givet sådan en vis form for… det har jo givet stort kendskab til hinanden. Altså, når man står og demonstrerer sammen med folk ovre på den anden side af blokken, så kommer man jo til at kende hinanden bedre. Jeg har også været rundt og fået samlet underskrifter ind. Dels om, at vi var glade for at bo i Mjølnerparken, og så skulle der også samles underskrifter ind til det der borgerforslag mod ghettoloven. Det har været meget givende at samle og snakke med folk om det. Vi havde et arrangement, hvor vi gik ind i alle gårde, – altså, én gård ad gangen – med kaffe, kager og saftevand, og dit og dut og dat. Samtidig var der nogen, der havde en computer med, så folk kunne få hjælp til at underskrive noget. Og så var vi der en time ad gangen, og så næste gård, og næste gård, – altså i alle fire gårde. Ja. Og det var meget… Altså, der får man jo håb, og man får glæde af, også af at møde alle de folk, der kommer ned. Nogen kom ned med kager, som de syntes, de ville bidrage også, selvom vi andre havde, altså…

Der var rigeligt.  

Ja, der var rigeligt. Men det der med, at man kan vel bidrage. Det har jeg oplevet meget, som noget meget kært på mange måder. Men vi har også, på et tidspunkt, da fælleshuset blev revet ned, det var et stort chok. Det var meget ubehageligt, det var meget… Det var besat et kvart døgn. Altså, ja, der var nogle unge, der havde besat det. 

Mm, jeg kan godt huske det.  

Jeg låste faktisk op for de unge, selvom, ja, det måtte man jo ikke, men… Og de ville så genmøblere fælleshuset. Men så blev de gennet ud om natten, og så blev det revet ned et par dage efter. Og det var helt unødvendigt. Det var helt… Det var ligesom at få tæsk. Fordi det var så brutalt, at man gjorde det over for os, og over for et område, der har så meget brug for steder, hvor vi kan samles. Der var der et par demonstrationer, hvor man står der på en ladvogn og råber og alt det der. Og der var nogen fra, jeg ved ikke hvad det hedder, – et eller andet anarkistisk kollektiv. De kom med mad om aftenen, og så kunne vi betale, hvad vi ville, eller lade være, hvis ikke vi havde nogen penge. Så der var ligesom sådan nogle aftener, hvor der var samling på forskellige måder. Senere, så blev der lavet en anden demonstration ovre på legepladsen – Ovre i Mimersparken – hvor, … ja, Anne-Marie Helger var. Hun stod for noget af det på et tidspunkt. Og der var der jo taler og manifestationer på forskellig vis. Der var der også nogle unge, og de snakkede ikke dansk. Jeg ved ikke, om de var englændere, eller hvad det var. Og der var også lavet mad, som folk kunne få. Der har været mange unge politisk interesserede, som har været optaget af det her, som har bidraget, selvom de overhovedet ikke har været ramt af det selv. Det har været meget opløftende. Det, synes jeg, at jeg bliver ved med at møde i andre sammenhænge. Og det har jo også gjort, at jeg selv er blevet mere og mere aktiv politisk, selvom jeg ikke er medlem af noget parti, men så er det på andre måder. At jeg oplever, at der er unge, der har et overskud, som engagerer sig på en meget sund måde i samfundet. Det har været tydeligt, omkring Mjølnerparken, synes jeg, og meget givende. 

I forhold til retssagen – den skal jo for højesteret nu.  

Ja, det skal den. 

Hvad tænker du, at udfaldet kommer til at betyde? Ikke kun for Mjølnerparken, men også, kan man sige generelt jo, fordi nu er Mjølnerparken det første sted.  

Ja, altså det kommer også til at betyde meget for Gellerup, fordi de står jo omkring nedrivninger og sådan noget. Jeg ved ikke meget om Vollsmose, faktisk. Men der er jo flere steder, omkring nedrivninger, hvor kommunerne ikke altid er solidariske med beboerne. Så det kan jo betyde, at … Ja, jamen jeg kan ikke tro andet end, at højesteret har samme indstilling som EU-domstolen. At det er diskriminerende. Det vil være en oprejsning, men også samtidig, så synes jeg, der skal være erstatninger. Også fordi, – altså af mange grunde. Jeg kunne da godt bruge de penge, men det er ikke så meget det. Der er rigtig mange mennesker med meget lav status og meget lav økonomi, der vil have så meget gavn af at få en erstatning. Altså fordi, der er rigtig mange mennesker, som bor i det vi kalder udsatte boligområder, som ikke har den der reserve. Hvis man så får en erstatning, så har man altså en reserve. Og så kan det godt være, at nogen ikke forstår at bruge det ordentligt. Det er skide lige meget. Men det der med, at de ikke er bange for at gå til tandlæge, det vil virkelig betyde noget. Så de fortjener en erstatning. Det synes jeg. 

Og så det sidste spørgsmål. Altså nu bor du jo ikke selv i Mjølnerparken – Du bor heldigvis ikke så langt fra igen – Men hvordan håber du fremtiden ser ud i Mjølnerparken?  

Altså jeg håber man finder sammen på forskellige vis. Men selve Mjølnerparken er jo delt i to nu. Det vil sige, der er den store gård og så den mindre gård. Og så er der de private imellem. Og jeg ved ikke, om man kan finde sammen på nogle måder der. Men hvis hele området overhovedet skal lykkedes, så synes jeg, man skal starte med at fjerne alle de der grimme gitterporte, og lade det være åbent, som det har været. Det er virkelig en skændsel at se den måde, det skal lukkes på. Det synes jeg. Og det gør jo, at de private og de almene ikke rigtig blander sig. Man kan ikke gå ind i hinandens gårde og sætte sig og komme i kontakt med nogen. Det er så dårligt. Men det gælder jo faktisk rigtig mange steder i København. At vi gittrer til og lukker af for hinanden. Det betyder, at mulighederne for fællesskab bliver ringere og ringere. Så kan man gå på en dyr café for at møde nogen. Men det, ja. Det er noget andet. 

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English:

The main focus of the second part of the photo exhibition is about the Parallel Society Legislation, and the future of Mjølnerparken. So the first question I want to ask you is, how has the Parallel Society Legislation affected you?

So the Parallel Society Legislation – or the “Ghetto Law”, as I also call it, because I think the word “ghetto” is characteristic of the thinking that the politicians had in presenting some areas as something different from the rest of us. But of course, it deals with a parallel society, that you are “parallel” with someone. I haven’t really understood what that is either. So you are like parallel in Vedbæk or all of Europe, where you look like each other and have roughly the same incomes, so… Yes.

But it has affected me in the way that I have lost trust in many politicians. I have lost trust in those in power – and it is especially political ones – who are going to investigate things thoroughly and be thorough, instead they use some areas to promote themselves. So you are proactive when you make a ghetto or parallel law, because then you do something about a problem, about an area where there are some problems. And there have been social problems in many residential areas. There still are, but they have not used the knowledge that is available about how you can actually change an area with socio-political efforts. It costs a little more in the short term, but in the long term it is much more rewarding to get involved and do many different social educational initiatives of one kind or another.

The fact that people in power use something like this to promote themselves, to show action without really understanding things – that has made me simply not trust many politicians any more. I think it’s superficial, and it’s big words, and then you do harm without wanting to clean up after yourself.

Because the ghetto law has meant that I have lost a community myself, both a small community and a large community. Because I also felt like a member of a large community in Mjølnerparken, because I knew so many people there. Just saying hello and waving and maybe making small talk, but not because it was anything special. But everyone knew where the old people lived, for example. It is a great sense of security when you are old and don’t know if something might happen to you. If something did happen to you: you would always be taken home to the right place. And that has been a great sense of security for me, which I think they have stolen; Which the Ghetto Law, the Parallel Society Legislation, has stolen from me. The way it has been implemented.

And how many years were you allowed to live in Mjølnerparken? 

I think it was 11 years. And those were significant years. It was also significant to be part of a community in a larger area, where you participate in the big meetings, general assembly or residents’ meetings. But also Christmas events for children and other events. To be able to be practical and participate in your own way, in that kind of thing. There are many places where there is no setting for that. It is not where I live here, where I live well – But there is no community now where I live, and there is no setting for that.

So what have you personally experienced as the most difficult part of the process?

Yes, [Laughs] it was understanding that it was serious. For a long time I was like, “You can’t mean that. That can’t be right. You don’t do that to people. You don’t throw people out of their apartments. That can’t be right.” But the day I got the notice; I completely broke down. And that was when it was clear. I knew it would happen. But it was very, very hard to get the notice.

That’s when it became real?

It became so tangible. Yes.

And what was the process like from the moment you knew you had to move? How was the transition from living there to finding a new home?

Yes, it was like, what can I say, I called it a ‘brittle period’, where I knew it, and then I didn’t quite know… How could we protest, and what could we do? We organized some events and held both demonstrations and some other forms of protests. Some of the energy was used to manifest that this was completely wrong. But at the same time, it was also about trying to think about: where should I go, and what should I do? And we got various strange messages and letters about lists, about apartments that we should apply for, and we heard stories about how there was nothing available after all, and then there was this and that, and some were too big, and some were too expensive, and everything. And those were the strange messages we got from those who were supposed to make sure that we got somewhere else. Those who wanted us out. So it was such a very troubled period on a personal level. I just had to accept that I couldn’t live temporarily here and there and come back to Mjølnerparken. Also because there were many who had lived there much longer than me, who had a greater right to do so. So in the end it was to go over and ask for a specific apartment, and get one assigned. An option.

But there was also a period when you hoped, or had hopes, that you could all stay together, right?

Yes, yes, and we had done that all along. The municipality accepted… or, yes. There is somewhere or other where we were promised that we could live at Hothers Plads, and that it was a prerequisite that we had to have another place to live together. There is some agreement with the municipality about that, which BoVita has not kept. And then, later, something came up with another housing association that wants to build something on Lygten. We hoped that it might be finished, but it is only now that people have started moving in. And that is, a couple of years after we were supposed to be out. So there has been a lot of mess around us. The Municipal politicians have also been like, “oh, it’s a shame, for you old people, and, well, you should probably stay in a good senior collective housing. And this and that.” They have had so many nice words about us, but there has been no reality whatsoever in it. So, yes.

And what about the various demonstrations you’ve talked about, how did they come about, and what effect did you experience demonstrating had, during all of this?

Well, we have had demonstrations throughout the period. Right from the time the law came into effect. We have had several demonstrations then. There have been the big ones, from all over the country, which took place on December 1st every year in front of Christiansborg. But then there have also been local demonstrations in Mjølnerparken, which we organized, and where people participated very enthusiastically. It was both before everything was decided, or before we knew where the hell we were going. Yes, and that has given us a certain kind of… it has given us a great deal of knowledge of each other. Well, when you stand up and demonstrate together with people over on the other side of the block, you get to know each other better. I have also been around and collected signatures. Partly that we were happy to live in Mjølnerparken, and then there were also signatures to be collected for that citizens’ proposal against the Ghetto Law. It has been very rewarding to gather and talk to people about it. We had an event where we went into all the courtyards – that is, one courtyard at a time – with coffee, cakes and juice, and this and that. At the same time, there was someone who had a computer so that people could get help signing something. And we were there for an hour at a time, and then the next courtyard, and the next courtyard, – that is, in all four courtyards. Yes. And it was very… Well, you get hope, and you get joy from it, also from meeting all the people who come down. Some came down with cakes that they thought they would contribute too, even though the rest of us had, so…

There was plenty.

Yes, there was plenty. But the thing about being able to contribute. I have experienced that a lot, as something very dear in many ways. But we also had, at one point, when the community house was demolished; it was a big shock. It was very unpleasant, it was very… It was occupied for half a night. Well, yes, there were some young people who had occupied it.

Mm, I remember.

I actually unlocked the doors for the young people, even though, well, you weren’t supposed to, but… And they wanted to refurnish the community house. But then they were kicked out at night, and then it was torn down a couple of days later. And it was completely unnecessary. It was completely… It was like getting a beating. Because it was so brutal that they did it to us, and to an area that needs places where we can gather so much. There were a couple of demonstrations where people stood there on a pickup truck and shouted and all that. And there was someone from, I don’t know what it’s called, – some anarchist collective. They brought food in the evening, and then we could pay whatever we wanted, or not if we didn’t have any money. So there were like a few evenings where we gathered in different ways. Later, there was another demonstration over at the playground – Over in Mimersparken – where, … yes, Anne-Marie Helger was. She was in charge of some of it at one point. And there were speeches and demonstrations in various ways. There were also some young people, and they didn’t speak Danish. I don’t know if they were English or what it was. And there was also food prepared for people to eat. There have been many young people interested in politics, who have been interested in this, who have contributed, even though they haven’t been affected by it themselves at all. It has been very uplifting. I think I continue to encounter that in other contexts. And it has also meant that I myself have become more and more active politically, even though I am not a member of any party, but in other ways. I experience that there are young people who have the energy who are involved in society in a very healthy way. That has been clear, around Mjølnerparken, I think, and for me, this has been very rewarding.

In relation to the lawsuit – it is now going to the Supreme Court.

Yes it is. 

What do you think the outcome will mean? Not only for Mjølnerparken, but also, you could say in general, because now Mjølnerparken is just the first place.

Yes, so it will also mean a lot to Gellerup, because they are faced with demolitions and things like that. I don’t know much about Vollsmose, actually. But there are several places, about demolitions, where the municipalities are not always in solidarity with the residents. So it could mean that… Yes, well, I can’t believe anything other than that the Supreme Court has the same attitude as the Court of Justice of the European Union. That it is discriminatory. It will be redress, but also at the same time, I think there should be compensation. Also because – for many reasons. I could certainly use the money, but it’s not that really. There are a lot of people with very low status and very low finances who would benefit so much from receiving compensation. That is, because there are a lot of people who live in what we call vulnerable residential areas who don’t have that reserve. If you then get compensation, then you have a reserve. Perhaps they won’t  know how to use it properly. It really doesn’t matter. But the fact that they’re not afraid to go to the dentist really means something. So they deserve compensation. I think so.

And then the last question. So now you don’t live in Mjølnerparken yourself – Fortunately, you don’t live that far away – But what do you hope the future will look like in Mjølnerparken?

So I hope people can come together in different ways. But Mjølnerparken itself is divided into two now. That is, there is the large courtyard and then the smaller courtyard. And then there are the private ones in between. And I don’t know if you can come together in any way there. But if the whole area is going to succeed at all, I think we should start by removing all those ugly gates and leaving it open as it has been. It’s truly a disgrace to see the way it’s going to be closed off. I think so. And that means that the people in private housing and the people in public family housing don’t really mix. You can’t go into each other’s courtyards and sit down and get in touch with someone. It’s so bad. But that actually applies to a lot of places in Copenhagen. That we close the gates and shut them off from each other. That means that the opportunities for community are getting fewer and fewer. Then you can go to an expensive café to meet someone. But that, yes. That’s something else.

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