Fortællinger Fra Mjølnerparken

Dansk:

Hvad ser du som noget af det sværeste i den proces, der har været i Mjølnerparken?  

Urban Partners [tidligere NREP] er først kommet ind i det, efter de politiske beslutninger er truffet. De meldte sig på banen som køber, og så er jeg kommet ind efter det, for at lave en strategi for udearealerne og for butikkerne hernede.  I helhedsplanen var det allerede besluttet, at man ville lave en handelsgade. Lokalplanen havde bestemt det, jeg tror det hed en Bazargade. Jeg vil sige, det gode for os har nok været, at det var besluttet i forvejen. At det ikke var os, der kom ind og ville gøre det. Altså, at transformere området, blandt andet til en kommerciel gade. Det tror jeg ville have været svært, hvis det var os, der var kommet med det. Men det var besluttet i forvejen. Så jeg synes faktisk ikke, det har været så svært, som det kunne have været, hvis det ikke havde været besluttet i forvejen. 

Jeg vil sige, at hvis jeg ikke havde haft jer, som lokal aktør herude, så havde jeg ikke haft mulighed for at tale med så mange af de tidligere beboere. Så det har gjort det nemmere at forstå, hvad er det for et område, jeg skal agere i. At få jer ind her har jo betydet sindssygt meget, fordi vi hele tiden har en connection til det gamle Mjølnerparken. Så vi har hele tiden historien med, – som jeg har sindssygt meget respekt for. Det har hjulpet rigtig meget, sådan at det ikke blev så svært. 

Har det været, fordi det har givet nye kontaktflader, eller fordi det har givet en tillid?  

Ja, forhåbentlig begge dele. Men for mig har det givet mig en kontaktflade. Jeg kan række ud til nogen, som jeg ikke har kunne række ud til før. Fordi jeg ikke har været en del af historien. Og der har i kunne være mit mellemled. Jeg står jo ikke for boliger, jeg står kun for at lave en aktiv stueetage. Så jeg står for at lave hele gaden… Og forhåbentlig få kommunen og Bo-Vita med på at lave et godt udeareal, så det bliver rigtig rart at være her. Så det er ligesom min opgave. Og det, der har været svært, – som i sindssygt svært, – det er at få overbevist aktører om, at det her bliver et godt sted. Fordi den stigmatisering, der bare ligger som den vildeste sorte sky over Mjølnerparken, den er virkelig, virkelig svær at få folk ud af. Rigtig mange, især dem, der ikke kommer fra Nørrebro, har jo kun hørt om Mjølnerparken. De har jo ikke engang været her. Men der har været massiv pressedækning af området, også når der er sket nogle ting i området, men ikke i Mjølnerparken. Så mængden af presseklip omkring uro er jo helt vanvittig. Jeg har målt op inden jeg startede, hvor mange presseklip, der har været om noget, der var dårligt, altså negativ omtale i forhold til positiv omtale. Det er sindssygt; der er nærmest ikke nogen positive omtale i medierne af Mjølnerparken. Så er det jo klart, at folk udenfor, eller nogen, der ikke kender, ikke har en relation, – eller måske ikke kommer fra Nørrebro. Fordi hvis man er fra Nørrebro, har man et lidt anderledes forhold til det, – så danner man sig jo sit eget billede af, hvordan tingene er. Og hvis man så ikke møder det, så bliver man påvirket af det, medierne skriver. Så det har været rigtig svært at få potentielle lejere herude. Det har jeg skullet bruge rigtig meget tid på. Og faktisk, ligesom du spørger mig til at starte med, “hvad er din holdning til parallelsamfundspakken?” Og det er jo kun min egen holdning, – men der har været masser af diskussioner, hver gang jeg har haft møde med nogle potentielle lejere, omkring hvor jeg står henne politisk i det. Og det har jeg jo ikke normalt, hvis jeg skulle leje ud på Østerbro, eller i Nordhavn, eller på Strøget, for den sags skyld, eller på Vesterbro. Jeg har skullet bruge rigtig meget tid på at diskutere politik, på at forklare og overbevise folk om, at det bliver et virkelig dejligt sted. Også at få droslet lidt ned for stigmatiseringen, – eller, det kan jeg jo ikke, – men det negative om området, og sige, “prøv at hør! Jeg går derude og møder en masse mennesker, der har haft et dejligt liv derude. Det er jo ikke altaf det, der står, der er rigtigt.” Så det er klart det sværeste. Og få overbevist folk om, at det her er faktisk et dejligt sted, og at det bliver godt. Men det er så for nye jo – Altså dem, der skal flytte ind her, i butikker, eller i restaurant, eller hvad vi skal have herude af kulturstationer. Det er den ene del, der gør det.

Jeg tror også, – jeg har ikke mærket det meget, men jeg har en følelse af, – at der også er nogle af dem, der har boet i Mjølnerparken meget lang tid, som er bekymrede for, hvad der sker med det, jeg går og roder med. Altså hvordan bliver det nye Mjølnerparken, når der også kommer butikker, og der er en cocktail bar, hvor der bliver serveret alkohol. Der har ikke været meget af det, men jeg har godt kunne mærke, at der var sådan lidt, “hvad vil du? Eller hvad vil I?” Det er jo ikke mig, “men hvad vil I?” Og jeg synes, jeg har forsøgt at gøre mig umage for at fortælle om den strategi, der er lagt for området. Jeg har haft et møde med lokaludvalget fra Nørrebro, fordi de har også tråde ude, alle mulige steder, og fortalt dem om, “hvad er planen.” Og så har jeg forsøgt at minde om, at det er politisk besluttet. Det er ikke os, der kommer ind med det. Så det har været lidt… Jeg kan ikke sige, at jeg har mødt modstand i Mjølnerparken, for det ville være forkert. Men jeg har måske mærket, sådan, lidt… 

… En skepsis? Og en frustration? Eller…?

Ja. Sådan en “hvad er det? Hvad skal der ske?” Og det kunne man godt have været bedre til, – med plancher, med alt muligt andet at … 

… At kunne få kommunikeret?  

Ja. Set i bakspejlet.

Det giver meget mening.

Hvad er det for nogle muligheder, du ser for Mjølnerparken nu, og den fremtid, som, du, blandt andet gennem dit arbejde, er med til at skabe?  

Jamen prøv at hør….– Det er et område, jeg synes, har så kæmpestort potentiale. Både i forhold til placeringen, i forhold til den Røde Plads, til Mimersparken, Nørrebro. Det har kæmpe potentiale for at blive virkelig, virkelig godt. Der er grønne arealer. Det er der ikke ret mange steder i byen, der har. Der er masser af unge. Der er masser af børnefamilier. Mjølnerparken ligger lige over for Mimersparken, hvor der bliver spillet fodbold hele tiden. Der er altså virkelig dejligt livher. Så jeg håber og jeg tror på, at vi med den åbenhed, som butikker automatisk skaber, kan sørge for, at der er mange øjne på gaden. Som så skaber noget tryghed for dem, der bor her. Og at det faktisk bliver et sted, hvor vi kan vende historien. Altså, hvor vi begynder at fortælle dejlige fortællinger om Mjølnerparken. Hvor der kommer mennesker fra hele byen, som vil herud og sidde på en café eller købe en te og sætte sig over i parken. Så jeg håber, at det kan være med til at åbne op og ændre historien. Og desværre, så kan det ikke lade sig gøre at udvikle et område uden, at det mister noget af det, der var der før. Det kan vi ikke. Fordi mange af beboerne er væk. Urban Partners har jo to af boligblokkene ud af fire, hvor der er kommet nye beboere ind. Så der vil jo ske noget, som gør ondt på nogen. Det kan ikke undgås. Men når det er færdigt, så håber jeg, at dem, der er i de sidste to boligkarréer, faktisk også synes, at det er blevet godt, og at det er blevet gjort med respekt for det, der var engang. 

Det prøver vi helt lavpraktisk at gøre ved, at der vil være en masse forskellige spisesteder, med små butikker forhåbentlig. Nogle hverdagsting, man har brug for. Vi håber for eksempel på at få en pakkeshop, en frisør, – altså få noget, som man kan bruge, når man bor her i dagligdagen. Men også at vi forhåbentlig, – det kan vi ikke bestemme, men det gør vi sammen med kommunen, – at få lavet nogle områder ude foran Borgmestervangen. Ude foran butikkerne, hvor man faktisk kan opholde sig uden, at man har købt noget. Så det bliver demokratisk. Så man kan både sidde på hjørnerne, hvor der er caféer, og købe noget og sidde der, men at man også får lavet nogle åndehuller andre steder omkring Mjølnerparken. Og når jeg taler med nogen, – særligt nogle af de unge drenge, der bor herude, – så håber jeg, at jeg kan leve op til det, som de drømmer om. Fordi nogle af dem siger til mig, at “jeg vil bare så gerne være stolt af at sige, at jeg kommer fra Mjølnerparken.” Det kan vi jo ikke bære på vores egne skuldre at sørge for, at det sker. Men jeg håber, at med det vi laver, som er et lille greb, at det kan få dem til at tænke, “okay, det er sgu fedt nok at bo i Mjølnerparken.” Fordi, det er det. Og det kan jeg jo mærke på dem. Det er jo andres syn på dem, – eller syn på Mjølnerparken, – der gør, at de ikke synes, det er fedt. Hvilket er megatrist. 

Ja. Meget.  

Så hvis man kunne få lavet noget, som, – det er jo kommercielt. Det er det jo. Men det er det greb, vi har. Og det er det, der er besluttet på lokalplan. Så det er det, vi skal gøre. Hvis vi begyndte at lave kontor hele vejen ned, så skulle vi søge om dispensationer. Altså, så vi skal lave butikker. Men det giver også noget liv. 

Er der noget, du drømmer om i forhold til fællesskabet i Mjølnerparken som nabolag?  

Ja. Men det er lidt besværliggjort, af den måde, det er bygget på. På den måde forstået, at de har jo lukket alle gårdene i alle karréerne nu. Så det bliver svært at kunne opnå et socialt mix, som kunne komme begge, både de nye og de gamle beboere til gode –, fordi de kan jo lære noget af hinanden. Der er ikke rigtig et sted nu, hvor man faktisk kan mødes. Vi har Café 30, hvor man har mulighed for at mødes, og hvor der bliver lagt et kæmpestort stykke arbejde i, at man netop mødes på kryds og tværs. Men det er faktisk det eneste sted, vi har indtil videre. Fordi hvis det kunne lykkes at få flere initiativer, hvor man reelt møder hinanden, så ville det jo være helt fantastisk. Så opnår vi jo præcis det, som politikerne gerne vil. Men der er ikke noget i byggeriet eller måden, det er tilrettelagt i infrastrukturen, der lægger op til det, så er det svært at finde steder, hvor folk kan mødes.

Hvad tror du, at det ville kræve?  

Jamen altså, et, det kræver jo, at folk er sindssygt åbne. For begge parter. Både dem, der har boet her mange, mange år, og dem, der flytter ind. Og så kræver det nogle fysiske steder, hvor folk kan mødes. Eller arrangementer. Men arrangementerne har jo ofte brug for et fysisk sted at være. Men man skal ikke undervurdere, hvad det betyder, – tror jeg, og det er der nok en sociolog, der skal udtale sig om, – men hvad det betyder, hvis man bare mødes ved bageren. Eller hvis vi får et apotek, og man mødes dernede. Små interaktioner kan jo også gøre en forskel. At det faktisk ikke er så farligt, det her. Så der kan være bittesmå ting. Og i takt med, at der flytter folk ind, og de måske går i den samme vuggestue og børnehave, og de begynder at gå i samme skole, – så sker der jo allerede noget. Det er ikke kun bygningsmassen, selvom jeg sidder og siger, jeg synes ikke, der er så mange fysiske steder, hvor man kan møde hinanden ude. Og der er vi jo tilbage til, at gårdene er blevet lukket, så man kan ikke komme ind i hinandens gårde. Vaskerierne er per karré, så man kan ikke engang stå og vaske tøj, og snakke der. Så der mangler ligesom nogle steder, hvor man kan mødes. 

Vi håber, vi får lavet noget udenfor, hvor det er mere oplagt. Men jeg tror også, at det kan ske ved, at når folk flytter ind, begynder de at bruge nogle af de samme institutioner rundt omkring med børn – for dem, der har børn. Det kan man håbe. Men det er skide svært. Det er virkelig svært. 

Det er det. Jeg tror, at vi er kommet ret godt omkring. Har du nogle afsluttende tanker i forhold til Mjølnerparkens fremtid og dine ønsker for det, eller hvordan man kunne bidrage, eller noget at tilføje?

Jamen, ikke andet end, at jeg håber, at både nye og gamle beboere vil benytte sig af de tilbud, der kommer her over tid. Jeg håber, at de vil være nysgerrige over for hinanden. Og at man måske bruger lidt tid på, at – for dem, der flytter ind; det er jo så vores beboere, – at sætte sig ind i, hvad er der for et sted, og hvad det er for beboere, der bor her ud over os. Ikke bare i min opgang. Og at det også sker den anden vej frem. Men det er svært. Det er virkelig svært. Men det her sted, hvor vi sidder nu, i Café 30, er jo et sted, hvor det faktisk sker. Det er i en lille skala, så hvis man kan få noget af det lidt blæst op. 

Jeg tror, man skal have lavet nogle traditioner for de fire karréer – nogle arrangementer, der går på kryds af de fire boligkarréer, som måske er tilbagevendende. Og selvfølgelig, det er jo ikke bare i Mjølnerparken, at naboer ikke taler så meget sammen. Det er jo et problem, der er i hele landet. Men her er det måske endnu vigtigere, fordi der er en historik, der gør, at det kan blive kompliceret, hvis vi ikke møder hinanden. 

Og der er nogle fordomme, der i hvert fald fortjener, at blive kigget på, igen.  

Præcis. At man har får sat lidt spot på det. 

Men det tænker jeg også i – blandt andet med gadefest og nogle andre slags arrangementer – er ved at skabe nogle traditioner.  

Præcis. Ja. I gamle dage har vi hørt, at det var Mjølnerparkens fødselsdag, der blev fejret. Altså, der er masser af ting, man kan gøre. Det har bare været rigtig svært at sætte system i det, eller lave en årskalender for det. Fordi det ser ud, som det ser ud. Det er et stort byggerod stadigvæk. Og der er mennesker, der ikke ved, hvornår de kommer tilbage i deres boliger. Så i hvert fald fra vores side, har vi valgt ikke at dyrke det sindssygt meget, fordi der er et andet fokus. Og det fokus, det er faktisk ved at være væk nu, fordi de fleste ved, hvornår de skal tilbage i deres boliger. Og så tænker jeg, at man kan begynde at arbejde meget mere med, “hvad kan vi gøre, forat vi rent faktisk mødes, og lærer vores naboer at kende.” Det ville være fedt. 

Det ville være fedt. Vi krydser fingre!

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English:

What do you see as one of the most difficult things in the process that has taken place in Mjølnerparken?

Urban Partners [formerly NREP] only got involved after the political decisions were made. They came on board as a buyer, and then I got involved after that, and I’m going to try to create a strategy for the outdoor areas and for the shops down here. In the Unified Plan, it was already decided not to sell, but to create a shopping street. And I think the District Plan also had decided that – I think it was called a Bazar Street. I would say that the good thing for us has probably been that it was decided in advance. That it wasn’t us who came in and wanted to do it. That is, to transform the area, among other things, into a commercial street. I think that would have been difficult if it had been us who had come up with it. But it was decided in advance. So I actually don’t think it has been as difficult as it could have been if it hadn’t been decided in advance.

I would say that if I hadn’t had you all out here, I wouldn’t have had the opportunity to talk to so many of the former residents. So, it has made it easier to understand what kind of area I have to operate in. Getting her inhere has meant a lot because we always have a connection to the old Mjølnerparken. So we always have the history with us, – which I have a lot of respect for. It has helped a lot, so it wasn’t so difficult.

Has it been because it has provided new contacts, or because it has provided trust?

Yes, hopefully both. But for me it has given me a lot of contacts. I can reach out to someone I haven’t been able to reach out to before. Because I haven’t been part of the history. And here you’ve been able to be middlemen. I’m not in charge of housing, I’m only in charge of creating an active ground floor. So I’m in charge of creating the whole street… And hopefully get the Municipality of Copenhagen and Bo-Vita to join in creating a good outdoor area, making it really nice to be here. So that’s kind of my job. And what has been difficult, – as in insanely difficult, – is convincing stakeholders that this will be a good place. Because the stigma that just hangs like the wildest black cloud over Mjølnerparken, it’s really, really hard to get people out of. A lot of people, especially those who don’t come from Nørrebro, have only heard of Mjølnerparken. They haven’t even been here. But there has been massive press coverage of the area, even when things have happened in the area, but not directly in Mjølnerparken. So the amount of press clippings about unrest is absolutely crazy. Before I started, I always measured how many press clippings there have been about something that was bad, that is, negative publicity compared to positive publicity. It’s crazy; there is almost no positive publicity in the media about Mjølnerparken. So it’s clear that people outside, or someone who doesn’t know, doesn’t have a relationship, or maybe doesn’t come from Nørrebro. Because if you’re from Nørrebro, you have a slightly different relationship to it, – so you form your own picture of how things are. And if you don’t experience it, you are influenced by what the media writes. So it has been really hard to get potential tenants out here. I’ve had to spend a lot of time on that. And actually, just like you asked me in the beginning, “what is your opinion on the Parallel Society Legislation?” And that’s just my own opinion, – but there have been lots of discussions every time I’ve had a meeting with potential tenants about where I stand politically on it. And that is not normally the case if I were to rent out in Østerbro, or in Nordhavn, or on Strøget, for that matter, or in Vesterbro. I’ve had to spend a lot of time discussing politics, explaining and convincing people that it will be a really nice place. Also trying to reduce the stigma a bit, – or, I can’t do that, – but the negativity about the area, and saying, “listen! – I spend time there and meet a lot of people who have had a nice life out there. Not everything that’s written is true.” So that’s clearly the hardest part. And convincing people that this is actually a nice place, and that it will be good. But it’s for new people – that is, those who are going to move in here, into shops, or into restaurants, or whatever cultural institutions we are going to have out here. That’s one part of it.

I also think – I haven’t noticed it much, but I have a feeling – that there are also some of those who have lived in Mjølnerparken for a very long time who are worried about what will happen to the areas I’m working with. So what will the new Mjølnerparken be like when there are also shops and a cocktail serving alcohol. There hasn’t been much of that, but I have been able to sense that there was a bit of, “what do you want?” It’s not me, “but what do you people want?” And I think I have tried to make an effort to talk about the strategy that has been laid out for the area. I have had a meeting with the Local Committee from Nørrebro, because they also have threads out, in all sorts of places, and told them about, “what is the plan.” And then I have tried to remind them that it has been decided politically. It’s not a decision coming from us. So it’s been a bit… I can’t say that I’ve encountered resistance in Mjølnerparken, because that would be wrong. But I’ve perhaps felt, like, a bit…

… A skepticism? And a frustration? Or…?

Yes. A “what is it? What is going to happen?” And they could have done that better, – with posters, with all sorts of other things to…

… To be able to communicate?

Yes – In hindsight.

That makes a lot of sense.

What are some of the possibilities that you see for Mjølnerparken now, and the future that you, among other things through your work, are helping to create?

Well, listen….– It’s an area that I think has such huge potential. In relation to the location, in relation to the Red Square, to Mimersparken, Nørrebro. It has huge potential to become really, really good. There are green areas. There aren’t many places in the city that have that. There are lots of youths. There are a lot of families with children. Mjølnerparken is right across from Mimersparken, where football is played all the time. So there’s a really nice life and activity here. So I hope and I believe that with the openness that shops automatically create, we can ensure that there are many eyes on the street. Which then creates some security for those who live here. And that it actually becomes a place where we can turn the story around. In other words, where we start telling wonderful stories about Mjølnerparken. Where people from all over the city come here and want to sit in a café or buy a cup of tea and sit down in the park. So I hope that it can help to open up and change the story. And unfortunately, it is not possible to develop an area without it losing some of what was there before. We can’t. Because many of the residents are gone. Urban Partners has two of the four blocks of flats where new residents have moved in. So something is bound to happen that hurts someone. It is unavoidable. But when it is finished, I hope that those who are in the last two blocks of flats will actually also think that it has turned out well, and that it has been done with respect for what once was.

We are trying to do this in a very practical way, by having a lot of different places to eat, with small shops hopefully. Some everyday things that you need. For example, we hope to get a package shop, a hairdresser, – in other words, get something that you can use when you live here in your daily life. But also that we hopefully – we can’t decide that, but we will do it in cooperation with Copenhagen Municipality to create some areas out in front of Borgmestervangen. Out in front of the shops, where you can actually stay without having bought anything. So it will be democratic. So you can both sit on the corners where the cafes are, and buy something and sit there, but so you also get some leisure spaces in other places around Mjølnerparken. And when I talk to someone – especially some of the young boys who live out here – I hope that I can live up to what they dream of. Because some of them tell me, “I just want to be proud to say that I come from Mjølnerparken.” We can’t carry that on our own shoulders to make sure that happens. But I do hope that with what we’re doing, which is a small measure, it can make them think, “okay, it’s really cool to live in Mjølnerparken.” Because it is. And I can feel that in them. It’s other people’s views of them – or views of Mjølnerparken – that make them think it’s not cool. Which is totally sad.

Yes. Totally.

So if you could get something done, like, – it is commercial. It is. But that’s the instrument we have. And that’s what’s decided at the local level. So that’s what we have to do. If we started building offices all the way down, we would have to apply for exemptions, and we wouldn’t get that. So, we have tobuild shops. But it also provides some life and activity.

Is there anything you dream of in relation to the community in Mjølnerparken as a neighborhood?

Yes. But it is a bit complicated by the way it is built. In that sense, they have closed all the courtyards in all the blocks now. So it will be difficult to achieve a social mix that could benefit both, both the new and the old residents, because they can learn something from each other. There is not really any place now where you can actually meet. We have Café 30, where you have the opportunity to meet, and where a huge amount of work is put into meeting people in different ways. But that is actually the only place we have so far. Because if we could succeed in getting more initiatives where you can actually meet each other, that would be absolutely fantastic. Then we would achieve exactly what the politicians want. But there is nothing in the architecture or the way the infrastructure is organized that allows for that, so it is difficult to find places where people can meet.

What do you think that would require?

Well, one, it requires people to be incredibly open. For both parties. Both those who have lived here for many, many years and those who are moving in. And then it requires some physical places where people can meet. Or events. But the events often need a physical place to be. But you shouldn’t underestimate what that means, – I think, and there’s probably a sociologist who will speak out about that, – but what it means if you just meet at the bakery. Or if we get a pharmacy and you meet down there. Small interactions can also make a difference. That it’s actually not that dangerous. So there can be tiny things. And as people move in, and they maybe go to the same daycare and kindergarten, and they start going to the same school, – something is already happening. It’s not just the buildings in themselves, even though I sitting here and saying, I don’t think there are that many physical places where you can meet each other outside. And there we are back to the fact that the courtyards have been closed, so you can’t enter each other’s courtyards. The laundromats are per block, so you can’t even be washing clothes and talking there. So there’s a lack of places where you can meet.

We hope we can do something outside, where it’s more obvious. But I also think that it can happen that when people move in, they start using some of the same institutions around here with children – for those who have children. You can hope. But it’s fucking hard. It’s really hard.

It is. I think we’ve covered pretty much everything. Do you have any final thoughts on the future of Mjølnerparken and your wishes for it, or how you could contribute, or anything to add?

Well, nothing more than that, I hope that both new and old residents will take advantage of the offers that come here over time. I hope that they will be curious about each other. And that maybe you spend a little time – for those who move in; they are our residents, after all – to get to know what kind of place it is and what kind of residents live here beyond us. Not just in my stairway. And that it also happens the other way around. But it is difficult. It is really difficult. But this place where we are sitting now, in Café 30, it’s a place where it actually happens. It is on a small scale, so if you get it to grow a bit…

I think we should have some traditions for the four blocks – some events that cross the four residential blocks, which may be recurring. And of course, it’s not just in Mjølnerparken that neighbors don’t talk to each other that much. It’s a problem that exists throughout the country. But here it’s perhaps even more important because there’s a history that means that it can be complicated if we don’t meet each other.

And there are some prejudices that at least deserve to be looked at again.

Exactly. That you put a little bit of a spotlight on it.

But I also think that, among other things, with street parties and other kinds of events, some traditions are being created.

Exactly. Yes. We heard, in the old days it was Mjølnerparken’s birthday that was celebrated. Well, there are lots of things you can do. It’s just been really hard to put it into a system or make an annual calendar for it. Because it looks the way it does. It’s still a big mess while they are still renovating. And there are people who don’t know when they’ll be back in their homes. So at least from our side, we’ve chosen not to do it too much, because there’s a different focus. And that focus is actually going away now, because most people know when they’re going to be back in their homes. And then I think that you can start working a lot more on, “what can we do so that we actually meet and get to know our neighbors.” That would be great.

That would be great. Fingers crossed!